MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Bennie Thompson
Interview
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I`ll show you what I mean. This was the chairman of the January 6th investigation, Congressman Bennie Thompson, bringing the special meeting into session tonight.
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REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): Let me start by saying that it gives me no joy that I have been forced to call this meeting. I think my colleagues feel the same way. Expectation of this committee is that all witnesses will cooperate with our investigation. Witnesses, who have been subpoenaed, have a legal obligation to do so.
And when you think about what we are investigating, a violent attack on a seat of our democracy, perpetrated by fellow citizens on our Constitution, an attempt to stop the certification of an election. It`s shocking to me, shocking that anyone would not do anything in their power to assist our investigation.
While we don`t know all the facts, we do know that there was a powerful push to overturn the legitimate results of the 2020 election. Americans have been and continue to be lied to about that. We know that ultimately, there was a violent attack that interfered with the peaceful transfer of power from one president to another.
We know that lies about the outcome of that election haven`t gone away. And now, we have a key witness whose flat-out refusing to comply with a congressional subpoena and cooperate with our investigation.
The rule of law remains under attack right now. If there are no accountability for these abuses, if there are different sets of rules for different types of people, then our democracy is in serious trouble.
As chair of this committee, I won`t allow further harm to the rule of law in the course of our work. Mr. Bannon will comply with our investigation or he will face the consequences.
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MADDOW: Mr. Bannon will comply with our investigation or he will face the consequences.
That is Mississippi congressman and chairman of the January 6th select committee, Congressman Bennie Thompson.
Congressman Thompson joins us live right now.
Sir, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I know this a big and busy night.
THOMPSON: Thank you very much for having me, Rachel.
MADDOW: So your committee voted unanimously, 9-0, tonight to hold Mr. Bannon in contempt. We understand the next stop is the vote in the full House, which we just learned will happen the day after tomorrow, on Thursday.
What do you expect from that vote? Do you expect that any Republicans, for example, over the two on your committee, might join Democrats in voting to hold Mr. Bannon in contempt?
THOMPSON: Well, Rachel, we are hoping so. As you know, in is an opportunity for the house to express its displeasure with what Mr. Bannon is trying to do. He is actually trying to thwart the process of democracy. What we have going for us is an opportunity to set the record straight. I hope my Republican colleagues will join us.
It is unfortunate that people saw what happened play out on January 6th before their very eyes and now all of a sudden people are trying to make a mockery. Oh, it didn`t happen, we have to wait. We need more time.
This is not it. We are looking forward to going to rules committee tomorrow, Rachel, and, obviously, a vote by the full House on Thursday. And then it will go to the speaker for her to send it to the District of Columbia for their processing.
[21:15:03]
MADDOW: Do you have any indication from the Justice Department? Has there been any discussions already with the Justice Department about how they might handle this criminal contempt referral? It`s been nearly 40 years since they brought a prosecution on these grounds.
THOMPSON: Well, we have intentionally not talked to the Justice Department about it. We understand the process. We`ll go forward with it. It`s our expectation that once the Justice Department gets it, they will expedite the consideration.
It`s quite clear. We have, as a committee, the authority to issue subpoenas. We did. He chose to ignore it, and now we are following the process that`s outlined to us by law, and it`s our expectation that a Justice Department will move expeditiously in presenting this to a grand jury for Mr. Bannon`s indictment.
You know, we take seriously the work of the committee. We have not only subpoenaed Mr. Bannon, but a number of other people. Others up to this point, they are engaged with the committee.
We are getting material. We are having discussions with their lawyers. But he`s just totally ignored the process, and basically, for whatever reason, he is still trying to follow Donald Trump.
Donald Trump is not president. He can sue all he wants to, but, you know, at the end of the day his intimidations through lawsuits won`t get him anywhere with our committee because we`ve firmly believe that we are on sound footing.
MADDOW: In terms of the substance of what you want to hear from Mr. Bannon, I was interested to read that very detailed, very substantive report recommending this vote tonight, that your committee took, talking specifically about needing to decision concern why it was that the events of January 6th turned violent, Mr. Bannon having things to answer for in that regard in terms of his foreknowledge of how events would go that day. Bannon told his listeners on his podcast thing the day before the rally on January 5th, he said, quote, it`s not going to happen like you think it`s going to happen. It`s going to be extraordinarily different and all I can say is strap in.
Is it essentially your contention that comments like those from Mr. Bannon prove that he had some foreknowledge of how serious the events of the next day might be or indeed potentially how violent they`d be?
THOMPSON: Oh, there is no question in the minds of the committee. We believe that Mr. Bannon clearly was one of the persons encouraging the insurrection to happen. So what we have to do is get him before us in a deposition, answer the questions. He needs to tell us what he was doing in the Willard Hotel the evening before the insurrection. He needs to tell us what was he doing at the White House, if he was there. We need know who he was communicating with as well as who is financing his operation.
You do understand that Mr. Bannon was pardoned by Donald Trump for stealing money from people who wanted to build a wall on the southern border. So he doesn`t come with clean hands to start with. So this was an opportunity for Steve Bannon to clear the air as to just what kind of a person he is.
But he chose to be the person that he is, to flaunt the law and he thinks that he can get over, get beyond that. But, you know, Congress spoke loudly and strongly by putting this committee together. We take our work seriously. And Steve Bannon and no other individual will take the law in their own hands. This committee will do its job.
MADDOW: Mr. Chairman, one last question before I let you go. It`s a bigger picture question about this.
You have been at this work diligently and with a real sense of urgency. I mean, part of what`s going on here is some of the people that you have approached for documents and testimony are trying to drag this out, obviously, trying to make this take as long as possible, delays, obviously, one the best distraction tactics that targets of investigations and even witnesses to investigations can use and you have been overt and very clear about the fact that you are not going to be delayed and you are not going to be diverted from this.
Given the concerted nature of thundershower work thus far, can I ask you if you feel like thus far you have learned things that surprise you?
[21:20:05]
You have, obviously, you are not ready to report what you found, not ready to tell the country what the results of your investigation are, but as far as it`s gone thus far, have you learned things that surprised you, have you learned things that the rest of us don`t know about how those events came together and what kind of a risk we were in as a country?
THOMPSON: Well, we absolutely have. Obviously, I can`t tell you, Rachel. But we have thousands of pages of information that we have been supplied, our attorneys are going over it. Our researchers are going over it. Our committee is briefed on a daily basis as to what information is forthcoming.
And so in the pursuit of getting to the facts, we have to have access to Department of Defense records, White House records, Homeland Security, department of interior records, all of those records we are in the process of getting. We are making sure that the people who took out the permits for the park.
We want to know why would people bring bear spray to a peaceful march? Why would people bring bulletproof vest to a march if you didn`t come for a purpose other than something peaceful?
And so, we want to know who financed it. We want to know who chartered the buses. We want to know who chartered the airplanes and we will track the money. We have people on staff who have dedicated to finding out who financed the people who came to Washington and then what they did on January 6th.
They broke the law, and right now, the Justice Department is prosecuting a number of people. But I assure you, at the end of the day, the public will be shocked to know how close we came to losing our democracy if those insurrectionists had succeeded.
MADDOW: Congressman Bennie Thompson of the great state of Mississippi, chairman of the January 6th Select Committee -- Mr. Chairman, thank you for taking time to be here tonight. I know these next couple of days will be busy and intense. Thanks for helping us understand.
THOMPSON: Thank you for having me.
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